ACT Board of Supervisors Meeting

01/03/2022, 7:00pm

Apple Creek Township

Special Meeting

Monday, January 3, 2022 6 p.m.

1. Call to Order -6:03pm

2. Discuss lot sizes – limit to 2 minutes per person

In attendance for special meeting: Terry Mauch, Jerry Kunz, Roy Kuil, Eric Richard, Jamie Vetsch, Greg Hillig, Mark Springer (via zoom), Greg Kuil, Brandon Schock, Cyndy Meidinger, Lori Reis, Marv Abraham, Mack Isaacs, Lorrane Richard, Reid Thompson, Floyd & Tricia Bentz, Raymond Parsons, Mitch Flanigan

Mark Springer joined the meeting via zoon- he could not personally attend the meeting but wanted to be there to hear the people’s opinion. Th e reason we are holding the meeting is to give people a saying and we also se e the need to look at things such as sub divisions rules I will let you guys run it.

Dusty- so basically the main topic tonight is lot size for new subdivisions. Currently we have a minimum of 5 acres and we are taking public input to see if it should be smaller or the same or what it should be this is mainly for subdivisions not splitting up 2 acres here 3 acres there. Must be subdivisions 40avre minimum to run a sub decision.

Greg Kuil – I know right now it is 5acre minimum but I think it should go down to 1.5-2 acres. 1. It will help raise more money in taxes, 2. It will help the school by getting more residential families in the area. Some people just are not able to afford 10-20 acre lots or 5 acre and maintain them smaller lots are easier to maintain.

Brandon Schock- I am not a resident of Apple Creek Township I used to be I annexed my property into The City of Lincoln for that particular reason. I think you really need to look at smaller lots for 1. On the developer end of it 5 acre lots just don’t pencil out anymore especially if you want pavement and things like that. You brought up a good point with taxes or for the school if you guys are going to continue to run this and not get in with Bismarck or Lincoln the more residents you have out here the better school you can have. Another thing you have Bismarck and Lincoln knocking on your door. We are looking right now to work with Mariner’s to annex a big chunk in. We are also looking at one between Prairiewood and Copper ridge another 80acre chunk. He wants to do smaller lots 1.5-2acres you guys won’t allow it so he is annexing into Lincoln. I am on the board in Lincoln till June than I am done. I would like to buy some property out here and develop it some more of it, but at 5 acres it is just not feasible. Keep your township alive, keep taxes coming in here, and allow smaller lots.

Cyndy Meidinger – I agree with Brandon, I agree with Greg, and I will be the first to say that when I moved out here 100 years ago it was 5 acre lots and I was a firm believer in keeping 5 acre lots. But now I am older, hopefully a whole lot wiser and I really see the need for smaller lots. We missed out when Phalke wanted to do that development out by my house and granted it would have benefited me to a point because I could have gotten a little more paving to my place. Our roads would have been better and the one thing you hear from any one that moves out into the country is first thing they want is paved roads. The township cannot afford to pave those roads so if we want paved roads, better roads its probably better or a little cheaper to take care of paved roads than it is to constantly graveling and listening to everyone complain about dust and washboard and everything else. A side note I have a spreadsheet I started at home a couple of years ago. 3 years ago, Apple Creek well I am assuming Apple Creek Township residents got a tax break and we got a $500 discount on our property taxes. 2 years ago, they raised my taxes and I am assuming everybody else’s and I went up around $250. This year they went up $300 so we lost that $500. That is coming out of everyone’s pocket. So, the more people that are in the pie hopefully the less are payouts will have to be.

Terry Mauch- I don’t have any input on it right at this point.
 

Lori Reis – I personally believe they should stay at 5 acres at this time. 1st of all the roads especially Apple Creek Road is terrible if we get a whole bunch more traffic that is going to be even worse. I think that should be taken care of before making smaller lots. If you guys decide that you want smaller lots, I truly believe that this school should probably shut down and we should be absorbed into Bismarck or Lincoln or however it goes. Because I don’t believe that this school is going to be able to handle 1.5-acre lots development lots out here getting that many more kids into this school. So, I like the 5acre lots personally I don’t like as many people that is a personal thing for me but the first thing is Apple Creek Road sucks. Have surgery and drive on that road and tell me what you think of it afterwards. But I think that this school, everyone has been pushing for this school, I think if you add a lot more people into this Township, I think this school needs to close.

Marv Abraham – I agree with Lori 100%. My biggest concern is the infrastructure the roads. I followed a county truck empty this last summer going down Apple Creek Road and he was fighting to keep that, you know its not wide enough, he was fighting to keep that empty truck on the road. You know when I pull a trailer down that road its dangerous, so we got a start somewhere and you can’t have all the homes come in here and all the people than start building roads because 1st thing that’s going to happen is there is going to be accidents. I am with 5acre lots.

Mark Issacs- I am later on in this agenda

Reid Thompson – I am also on the later agenda

Floyd Bentz – My wife Tricia and I moved out here about 11 years ago, (Tricia) 16 years, we moved from Bismarck to out here because we needed to get out in the country. We have 40acres, we don’t want to see anything smaller than 5 acre lots. We walk our ground everyday for exercise we see the wildlife we have there we enjoy that. I agree with the other comments about Apple Creek Road about being too narrow there are going to be accidents if we get a lot of people on and there is already pressure on it like the little bit of tar, they out on last year is going to break down again this year and constantly dealing with that. 5 acre lots or more.

Dusty – That is everyone on the list for right now. Let’s go through the board members.

Roy Kuil – I would like to see 1.5-2 acre lots. My primary reason is tax revenue for the township for maintenance on the roads. Tax revenue for the school district, I am also on the school board, as far as improvements on Apple Creek Road I agree there needs to be improvements on Apple Creek Road. Those would probably take place when they see traffic increasing on Apple Creek Road same with 93rd improvements would take place as traffic would in increase on those roads. At this point its busiest roads get the treatment and I know that because I am the road supervisor. We need the tax revenue. Right now, we don’t have enough to do all the roads that need to be done every year in the budget.

A Township member arrived late and arrived to share his opinion on the lot sizes.

Raymond Parsons- I just want to say I am in favor of staying 5-acre minimum size. That is one of the reasons we moved to this area.

Jamie Vetsch – I need you to sign in sir and state your name please and thank you.

Jerry Kunz – I just want to say I think we should stay at the 5 for all the reasons that have been stated

Dan Reis- I would just like to say I agree with my wife

Dusty that is everyone on the list is there anyone missing that would like to speak. Nobody else. Mark, would you like to add anything to this.

Mark Springer- The only thing that I will add. The concerns about Apple Creek Road. I actually had a student do a paper on that for my class last semester and Roy is right it is a numbers game the more people we have traveling on Apple Creek Road the more money we will get unfortunately that is how the county sees it right now. So, until we get more people traveling will never see improvements to it, so its kind of a catch 22. If you want to see Apple Creek Road improve than you are going to want more people traveling on the road or increase the numbers of people driving on the road somehow. I am not sure how we do that without expanding or doing something different or paying for it out of pocket which means our tax dollars go up. Which I don’t really want to see myself.

Dusty Hasper- I was going to say that exact same thing Mark said. They have told us over and over that as far as the roads go, they put road counters out every year and it’s based on the number of people going in that direction and that is where the money gets spent or divvied out. Until there get to be more people on that road, they are not going to put the money towards that road. So, it is a catch 22 there.

Marv stated that he would have a question later on Apple Creek Road as it has been on the list for over 10 years since he has moved out here. Its way past due.

Brandon – the problem with that is though like Dusty said so they put counters on the road there, they put them on 66th street. Next year they are starting a big project on 66th street because there are 5000 vehicles a day on 66th street.

Marv- What is the Numbers on Apple Creek Road

Brandon- I don’t know, probably not near that. We had to get to a certain number of traffic before they would do anything. Its almost to the point where I can’t even pull out of my driveway anymore. Certain times of the day I can’t. But that is what it took to get the big improvements. Apple Creek Road is not just a pave over and fix thing, it’s a widen, its going to be a huge project to make it a safe road. Right now, if there is a bike rider and 2 cars the bike rider better hit the ditch or get ran over. It’s been like that since I have been a kid out here. Cars would come we would have to take our bikes to the ditch. It’s been like that forever and its going to stay like that until you get more traffic out here.

Cyndy- Did Apple Creek Road get turned over to the county?
 

Roy- The County does do the maintenance but we do have to pay for half of it. So, if it costs a million dollars to redo that road, we have to come up with half a million.

Marc- Is it a state highway?

Roy- No it’s a county road, but the township still has to pay half of the maintenance for that county road for the part that is in our township. Which for us is 132nd and clear over to 52nd.

Lori – Question to Brandon. So, you say you have 5000 cars a day how many cars do you need.

Brandon- I do not know you would have to talk to Casey or Marcus Hall at Burleigh County. You can ask them what kind of traffic or count do we need to make it an actual decent road.

Lori- I can’t see if 1 person does a 40-acre development they’re not going to redo the road for that one development or even 2 developments.

Eric – it boils down to traffic and I m not sure what the county’s magic number is.

Lori – I am just wondering how many developments would we need before they actually take a look at it?

Mark – I actually have that information in that student paper. He did give me permission to share it so I am going to look to see if I can get that posted somewhere. He did a really good thorough job of interviewing Marcus Hall and several other people involved with what it would take to expand Apple Creek Road. It was really good.

Dusty – can you explain Mark I don’t know if everyone knows your students did a study on this right?

Mark – I had 2 different things 1 project was issues that we are facing as a township they did a comparative analysis in that one for future issues that we will be talking about in different meetings hopefully. This was a student that lives in Apple Meadows and a different project. Which is not part of our township but he travels Apple Creek Road and his topic was how we can look at expanding Apple Creek Road. He did a lot of study into it and basically it is a numbers game, He did have exact numbers in the paper. Marcus did say Apple Creek Road is within the 5-year plan now but it has been pushed down the road every year. That is one of the concerns is that they just don’t see the numbers to expand it until we reach the magic number.

Roy- Is it safe to say Mark that every year as there is more population in the county that the number could be a moving target.

Mark – one of the issues becomes basically like you said how the money gets used with our township. Because if we are paying for x percent if we have a lot of people including those in Apple Meadows and others that are traveling on it outside of our township. I don’t know how we account for that type of traffic in our payment.

Roy- Apple Meadows is actually within the township because its south of highway 10 so we are still gaining some tax benefit from those people. Even though they are Bismarck ETA.

Mark- yes that is true. But we don’t know how many of them travel south to use Apple Creek Road vs traveling North.

Brandon- I think a lot of people avoid Apple Creek Road if they can.

Jamie – I have a feeling if people knew that driving it could potentially fix it, they would travel it more just to get the numbers up. I would.

Lori – you look at 66th st to town they haven’t done anything with that road its just as bad. For all these years I mean Lincoln is there with all these cars and you have our township traveling Apple Creek Road.

Eric- so for 2022 they are starting on that to improve the road.

Dusty- from 66th all the way into town I believe right?

Eric- 1st phase is Lincoln to Apple Creek Road.

Brandon – first the bridge is going in finish out the road put the roundabout in at Apple Creek, then go up to Highway 10. Then the second possibly 3 or 4 years for now depending on how it lands it will be Apple Creek to won because the traffic has increased a lot. In 2025 they are hoping to get money for the off ramp on 66th

Terry – when they put the bridge in that will increase traffic quit a bit in this area I think and I think that will help get traffic to get the numbers for Apple Creek Road.

Dusty- so you are saying have the counters out while they are building that road so we get the numbers on our road.

Brandon- They are leaving 66th st open.

Dusty – they are building beside it right?

Terry – there is a lot of talk from the next townships out from us like Menoken, Mckenzie, there is a lot of talk about sub divisions going in out there, and a lot of that traffic is going to flow this way. Its going to be on highway 10 and Apple Creek Road, and if we don’t decrease to 1.5 or whatever. They are going to get all the development and we are still going to get the traffic. I think we have to do it because there are several people that would do subdivisions right now if they could get 1.5 acres out here.

Roy -We have latterly had requests.

Terry – Its going to come whether we like it or not and we might as well get the tax benefit out of it rather than let the other places get it.

Jamie – I just want to say we need to keep in mind what were talking about in lots we are not allowing subdivisions in subdivisions. If there are already 5 acre lots, 10 acre lots we are not allowing people to take those and break those down to 1.5-2 acres. It’s a brand-new subdivision starting with 40acres and allowing those to be down from 5 acres. Anything in your neighborhood that is already as is we are not going to grant them permission to take a 5-acre lot and take it down to 1.5-acre lot or take a 10-acre lot and break it into parts. This is just starting with new developments not any where you want all willy nilly. I don’t know if that was clarified for everybody and understood.

Terry – I think starting at 40-acre subdivision I think you should look at going down to 20 acres, because there are several that have started out here that are only 18-20 acres. One on 80th st that one is only about 18 acres, I think. The one they are doing on 52nd ave all together, because they are doing it into a couple of different stages, they are only about 18acres a piece to. They got their approval from the city of Bismarck. Look at how that has gone already there are already like 20 new houses out there.

Brandon- well you could leave it at 40acres and allow a variance on that. That way you don’t get people coming in wanting. 20 acres make work some places other places they won’t. So, I would leave it 40 and then if they want a variance because they only have 20 than they have to get the ok from their neighbors and things like that. There can be other things that go into that. Because maybe the neighbor that house a right next to that don’t want that 20 acres split up, that would help both parties.

Dusty- Yah, for future planning if the roads are going to continue through and go on if you do 20 acre all along the road and then there is no access to the land behind it than the next stuff is screwed kind of deal.

Terry – If there is a possibility of a variance written in there somewhere

Dusty – where it would show a future like plated out at the 40 and be able to do 20 at a time, I could see that. But it would have to be plated out at the 40 I think and there might be a variance except for if there is 20 acres in a corner and there is no other land around it and its up against a slew than we would have to make it count for that. Other thing would be I looked into a lot of other townships and their developments a lot of them for the fire marshal they have to have 2 accesses into the development now in case of a fire or something so they are not blocked off. If I understood it right the county would have to have them paved now to.

Roy- if it comes off a paved road it has to be paved, and any side roads that would have the secondary access have to be paved down to at least the secondary access.

Dusty – so those would be things we have to add into our ordinances than to make sure we match with the county. Do we have any other input?

Jamie – so if I understand the whole significance of paving roads. That would benefit the township because we would get the tax revenue to help us out with our gravel roads because the maintenance on the paved roads would be pretty much snow removal and cleaning once in a while?

Roy- pot hole patching

Dusty – lots asses higher if they are paved vs gravel. We will adjourn the meeting and bring this back up during zoning portion of the regular meeting.

Meeting adjourned – 6:45pm

 

Apple Creek Township

Regular Meeting Minutes

Monday, January 3, 2022 7 p.m.

  1. Call to Order- 7:00pm
    1. In attendance Terry Mauch, Jerry Kunz, Roy Kuil, Eric Richard, Jamie Vetsch, Dusty Hasper, Greg Hillig, Mark Splonkowski, Mark Springer(via zoom)
  2. Minutes – review
    1. Motion to approve minutes 1st by Eric, 2nd by Mark
      1. Vote- unanimous yes
  3. Mitch Flanagan – Director, Burleigh County Planning & Zoning
    1. Was asked to come by Mark to talk about Plats. A call from a land surveyor from a plate that they want sub divide. Burleigh contacted Mark Springer. A plate is need with the county whether the township is organized or not. Township is kept in the loop of the pending plat; township provides opinion on approval or denial to the county during the preliminary process. County commission decision ways heavy on what the township wants. They will readjust or deny a plat based using the township input. A plat is need for anything under 40 acres. Anything over 40acres is agricultural and if not being divided does not need a plat. Burleigh County is not interested in taking over our zoning, they prefer to keep it with the local township. County seeing more history plat on auditors’ lots and descriptions. Auditor lot is not a plat it is a legal description. Not having a plat could cause problems, right of ways could not be missed, easements missed. Plats help with development process and provides a buyer of property a transparent document showing what is purchased and all things associated with the land. Plats are required by law so all access & right of ways are shown. Plats bring out the truth in the property. Platting helps if there is a lawsuit a plat will protect property owners and investors.
    2. Dusty – Mitch- Do the people come to you to fill out application and come back to us.
    3. Mitch- If not problematic it can all be done in 6 weeks should be done at zoning meetings. Should show up township first than county. Preferably withing a week of each other. Anything under 40 should be platted.
    4. Roy- Mitch- 40acre parcels should still be checking for easements?
    5. Mitch- If buying you should check. Lots of unknow right of ways can go unnoticed a plat will show all things they may not know otherwise.
    6. Terry – isn’t it normal at closing that the Title company should have it in order to get a title.
    7. Mark Issac- Should be done with the title commitment but not all have been surveyed. So, until a survey is done to show all tings things could be missed.
    8. Mitch- Plating saves buyer for a lot of things in the future.
  4. Update on Township records
    1. Jamie made a phone call to fireside prior to the meeting to see how progress has been. They are almost done scanning all things left they have one box of things left to scan. We received a bill for $3579 that I will ask to be paid under treasurer report. We are still on budget. Will be working out with them when they are done how to get records back to us.

5. Area Reports - none

A. School Board Report

a. No big report. Still looking for public input from school district to join the building committee. Looking into new school or out building. School board has been interacting with BPS to see what the future is looking like and any future plans. BPS does not want to absorb us at this time as bussing cost would be high. There are 84 students and I think 20 are out of district. Not counting the 20 we are over students. We are looking at funds for the building, looking into grants or a possible bond issue. BPS is currently doing a study of the area. They are taking us into consideration as our students feed into their school systems. We want to plan for what we need in 10 years.

b. Brandon- BPS is still not sure what they will be doing with Lincoln whether a new school or addition

c. Roy- we want to stay as an independent school instead of getting absorbed.

B. Treasurer’s Report-

a. Checking: $58,237.00 Savings: $134,378.86, 66th st project: $200,044.39

b. Bills: Lawyer: $2036.94, Fireside: $3579.00, Payroll.

C. Motion to pay bills- 1st Dusty, 2nd Eric

d. Vote- unanimous- yes

C, Assessor’s Report – no changes

D. Building Inspector’s Report – need for supervisor

a. 1 call, 1 permit, 9 inspections. No replacement at this time, the township should talk to the county for assistance with permits until a replacement can be found.

b. Township was going to talk with Lincoln and discuss hiring a person to work with Lincoln and Township on permits. Lincoln Cancelled December meeting so no discussion was had.

c. Mitch Flanigan- We issue permits for organized and unorganized townships. Fee for the applicant township keeps. The county issues permits and does inspections. Make sure that anyone you hire has the proper license.

d. Jamie- We have outstanding permits that need to be finished and potential new one’s board members what can we do to help our people continue moving forward while we look into a new inspector.

e. Board decided that Burleigh County will assist with the completion of outstanding permits and will work with the county to issue any new permits until a permanent solution is made with our building inspector. We do not want our resident’s left behind well we work this out and make them be on hold.

f. Eric made a motion to go through Burleigh County for our permits at this time. Mark 2nd the motion.

G: vote on motion- unanimous yes

E. Road Supervisor’s Report

a. no calls, driven roads, still frozen, things seem to be quiet

F. Weed Board Report – county information request

a. Letter form the county – asked Jamie to follow up with the letter about getting them our cost sharing information to them. There is no cost sharing in the township the resident’s contact county and we do our cost share from them.

6. Zoning Board

- Update on Terry Hoerer property-

a. Mark had contacted the lawyer last week and they have not heard from Hoerer or courts. A summons will be issued if things are not being taken forward with the courts.

- Mark Isaacs, subdividing land

a. Property owned on 43rd & 76th by the Patton’s. The renters that currently live there want to by the house and property on the corner, 10.9 acres w/ existing house. Want to divide the property to the 10.9acres and 2x 15.92acre lots. 5 acres to be dedicated for right of way roads that are on the section lines.

b. Question from the floor- will this be a subdivisions

c. Mark Issac- only if additional homes were wanted. The 2x 15.92acre lots would still be agricultural.

d. Question from the floor- so those lots could not be subdivided?

e. Board- The property is too small to be broken up into smaller lots. The remaining lots are only 15.92acres which is under the 40acre for subdivisions.

f. Mark Splonkowski- No change in zoning, it is in compliance, I would asses 2acres for the residential and the rest for agriculture. If there are more than 5 acres a home can be built on it. In this case Agriculture land would be staying agriculture land no zoning change,

g. Mark Issac – If they would want to build additional homes this would this need to be treated as a sub-division

h. board- it does not meet the minimum requirements for acres to be a subdivision. If a person were to buy one of the 15.92acre lots they could build one home. If the owners wanted to combine the remaining lots it is still under minimum 40acres.

i. Jerry makes a motion to approve the subdivision of the Patton’s property to the 10.09acres with the house and 2x 15.92acres lots. Roy 2nds the motion.

j. Vote- all in favor unanimous yes

k. Eric- Based on the comments in the room on the lot sizes the comments stayed about 50/50 for and against. Eric likes the idea of 40-acre minimum subdivision with a minimum of 2 acre lots.

l. Mark Issac – Bismarck and Mandan were 1 acre lots. Century code allows for less. Bismarck and Mandan wanted 65sgft a.5acre in case a septic system failed. 1.5acres gave more room for secondary septic system. A home w/shop 2 septics with all setbacks & easements will work on 1.5acres. 40acres is a big undertaking for developers. There are a lot of criteria’s that need to be met in order to even develop a subdivision.

 

m. Roy makes motion for 40 acres minimum for subdivision with 1.5acre lots. Mark 2nds the motion.

N: Vote- Jerry- NO, Eric- NO, Dusty: NO. Motion fails

O. Eric makes a motion to approve 40acre minimum for subdivision with 2 acre lots. Mark 2nds the motion.

P: Votes; Jerry-NO, Dusty-YES, Roy-YES, Eric-YES, Mark-YES. Motion passes.

7. Adjourn – 8:03pm

next meeting February 7, 2022 at 7 p.m.

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